Although I prefer flying the shield tanked Nano-Cane for solo work and fast moving cruiser gangs, it is not really appropriate for bringing to a gang using armour logistics. You should always try and match your tank to the logistics available if any.
The Armour cane gives up a lot of maneuverability and some DPS potential to the Nano-cane. However it has several significant advantages. The overall EHP (buffer tank) on the Armour cane is about 40% greater than the buffer on the Nano-Cane. This means that in battles you can last a lot longer without logistics support. The other huge advantage of the Armour Cane is that it has three mid-slots available for a variety of e-war. The value of this should not be underestimated when taking on a larger gang.
These two advantages also make this ship better for bringing to gangs running no logistics and/or is light on dedicated ewar ships. A half-dozen armour tanked battlecruisers with lots of e-war in the mids can often take on a much larger shield tanked gang with less ewar and come away clean.
The below example is setup for when I am running as FC. When I run as FC I like to keep the e-war simple by using a target painter. It just gets placed on the primary target and helps myself and the rest of the gang track and do damage. Additionally I fit an ECCM module because it makes target calling difficult if I can't target anything. If not running as FC it makes sense to co-ordinate with the other gang members for a balance of Sensor Dampers and Tracking Disruptors.
Also note the use of double tracking enhancers. These two modules greatly increase the range of the guns meaning that this slow ship does not have to power around between targets. If you are able to engage at close range however, it makes sense to switch to Republic Fleet short range ammo for additional damage.
[Hurricane, Armour Cane]
Damage Control II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Conjunctive Ladar ECCM Scanning Array I
Partial Weapon Navigation
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
SV-2000 Assault Missile Bay, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
SV-2000 Assault Missile Bay, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Medium Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Warrior II x5
I understand the choice of midslots if you're in a medium or larger gang. I understand the tank. That's where things fall apart.
ReplyDeleteWhat you have here is a glorified frig killer, and on that's sub-par at best. d180mms would be much better suited for swatting frigates due to massive increase of tracking over 425mms.
Battlecruisers tend to be DPS staples in gangs; the armor tanked Cane usually a brick that's able to hold down and punish targets with neuts, good dps and above average staying power. What you've submitted here has the staying power, but lacks DPS for little reason. Yes, your Barrage will hit out nearly double what it did before, but honestly armor BCs don't want to be fighting at 20km. They're meant to slug.
I'd suggest switching to gyros, downgrading the ACs to 220mms and either upgrading to HAMs or opting for medium neuts, or even a single neut and a ganglink.
The choice between Gyros and TE is pretty much six of one vs half dozen of the other. The TE gives you much better range at the expense of short range DPS.
ReplyDeleteLooking at the numbers and plugging them into the falloff formula I get the following (Barrage + 2 TE / RF EMP + 2 Gyro). Both numbers include damage from the Assault Launchers.
5km 362/582 DPS
10km 353/445 DPS
15km 333/227 DPS
20km 303/147 DPS
30km 229/47 DPS
The crossover point is at around 12.5km.
In some cases this is worth it, in others it is not. In most BC fights I have been in one side or the other is jumping through a gate. As a result the ball of enemy ships is greater than 30 km. The Armour tanked cane just is not fast enough to power from target to target. If the FC primaries a ship 50 km away it will take about 50 seconds to close withing 10km of that ship. By which time it is blown up and another ship 30 km away is made primary. Whereas with my longer range I can pretty much just keep some range for safety and pound away at all but the furthest targets. In other situations, like on a bubble camp or a station undock, the higher short range DPS is an advantage for sure.
As for switching to 220mm ACs and going with HAMs, this gives you 2 extra DPS at 5km and things go south from there fast. Not worth it IMHO.
When I plug in 2x HAM vs 2x AML, the dps difference is 30. Not sure where you acquired your 2 dps difference.
ReplyDeleteSecond - you're comparing barrage on one fit vs close range ammo on another - why? Of course there's going to be a disparity displayed in the early stages of analysis - the 2x gyro cane doesn't have to stick with close range ammo when targets are in heavy falloff.
For the kind of PvP you're describing - targets at range, kiting, etc, I think you'd be better served by a shield gank fit that sports a mix of gyros, TEs and perhaps a nano if you're into that. Otherwise the armor tanked cane is out of place chugging after/towards targets.
I think our analysis is drifting due to disparity in PvP experience. Slower moving armor gangs are more fit to exchange fire, thus general strategy is to close range and keep combat there. Even when fighting on gates gangs more often return to gate to engage rather than motoring away, and when decloaking, ships will typically be 15km from gate, which isn't much distance to MWD at all. Even if targets are at range greater that 20km, the environment you're describing suggests to me that you have light tackle to hold down targets. It'd be a short amount of time to burn into optimal range for close range ammo when opposing ships are tackled.
All my armor BC experience is from lowsec, generally from an outlaw gang. I've FC'd more than a few of them. Where are you drawing your knowledge from?
As I said in my earlier comment it is really six of one vs half a dozen of another. (That might be a Canadianism, it means though different they are the same) There are any possible number of combinations of TE, Gyro, and EANMs that can be put in the lows for better range, better tank or better gank. I find in 0.0 in the fights I am in, the better range serves me well. However, I can fully appreciate that in different environments (like low-sec or empire wars or just different fleet styles) that having more gank is preferable.
ReplyDeleteAs far as HAM vs AML.... Again the HAM with 220s has the greater gank potential at short range, while the AML gives you less dps but with a bit more flexibility. There is no such thing as perfect fit for all situations.
Cheers
That would be a Canadia-ism.
ReplyDeleteJust thought i would add, you do know that in the screenshot you have a Gyro and TE II. Not the two TE II as you said.
ReplyDeleteGood Catch PsyK.... I noticed that before but thought that nobody would notice.
ReplyDelete